Curse

AndrewSX · Jan 08, 2012, 10:09 PM // 22:09

No dmg at all - > Then why bother with AoE or Stoneflesh?

(jk)

Dutchiez · Jan 08, 2012, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Plus AoE gives 65 AR already, count the +24 AR from I Am Unstoppable, the 60 Base AR and you got 149 AR, adding 20 to that would be overkill imo. (Although I'm not sure about armor caps so I could be completely wrong here).

Maurice · Jan 08, 2012, 10:21 PM // 22:21

You got me there.
And i think you know why we use those skills. IF everything is done correct there is no need for them aswel. But there are always some moments when it just doesn't go correct. And for winter, it is a Wilderness Survival skill. Would you like to have an sos without a single attribute high, or you want to split them all?

EDIT: Dutchiez ninja'd me.

AndrewSX · Jan 08, 2012, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Duh. WSurvival on Winter is something i forgot completely.

Dutchiez · Jan 08, 2012, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I now am thinking about Physical Resistance, seeing as that's in the same attribute as Channeling and gives a nice +40 armor bonus and lasts really long, although it does decrease your armor vs elemental dmg.

Maurice · Jan 08, 2012, 10:36 PM // 22:36

We are thinking about intensity on some of the ele's. Still have to check out which ones.

Gondrakif · Jan 08, 2012, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Well, winter could come out handy, but Earthbind is just too good to take away. As the knockdown now durates 3 seconds, its the time of the entire spike.

If that's true 3 ADoT skills on the caller sound useless, by the time he's done casting the third the spike should be over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex/Stuiver

The Shockwave spiker has to use his spike skills in a certain order to work, Tenai's Wave -> Aftershock -> Crystal wave -> Shockwave.

Well with that order you completely miss cracked armor on the spike, which is pretty important considering this is almost all elemental spike. The fire spiker should be done spiking by the time shockwave is casted and the caller should be done with most of his damage.

And if you add fragility to the mt it would be even better to have shockwave cast first so there is extra damage from crystal wave.

Maurice · Jan 08, 2012, 11:58 PM // 23:58

First of all, the damage done by Tenai's and Crystal Wave are armor ignoring.
Nevertheless, the order for the SW spiker should be lik this : SW, Aftershock, Teinai/crystal, teinai/crystal.

We are also changing the caller build. We are still having our doubts about churning, but eruption has already been replaced for earthen shackles.

And the earth spiker may be just one second slower than the fire one, as most of the time, two cyrstal skills are overkill.

Gondrakif · Jan 09, 2012, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Sorry wasn't clear enough, what i meant was that crystal/tenai's will remove conditions if cast after shockwave so fragility will be triggered again and you get more damage. Also GoEP gives a nice +10-20 damage per skill to each spiker which isn't that bad. Tbh i would favor df @ 0 water over Earthen Shackles if the caller has enough energy for it the reason being when crystal/tenai's is cast burning is gone and the mob isn't slowed anymore.

Alex/Stuiver · Jan 09, 2012, 11:58 AM // 11:58

The builds got adjusted a little bit, finding that eruption was a bit energy kill

Essence Snow · Jan 09, 2012, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Any thoughts?

Also was thinking about the EoE...instead of vampirism maybe technobable for 40 dmg from skill + 17 dmg from daze condition. It might help with cleanup on casters as spikers can wand to rupt.

Alex/Stuiver · Jan 09, 2012, 02:14 PM // 14:14

We made solo ToC possible with fragility, so if the EoE would take Technobably solo toc would probably suck a bit.
Gonna try those builds as soon as we can, looking forward to it

Dutchiez · Jan 09, 2012, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gondrakif

Sorry wasn't clear enough, what i meant was that crystal/tenai's will remove conditions if cast after shockwave so fragility will be triggered again and you get more damage. Also GoEP gives a nice +10-20 damage per skill to each spiker which isn't that bad. Tbh i would favor df @ 0 water over Earthen Shackles if the caller has enough energy for it the reason being when crystal/tenai's is cast burning is gone and the mob isn't slowed anymore.

I agree tbh, DF would be a much better snare although I'm not sure if the energy can take it. But we've already taken out Eruption which costs 25 energy (same as Deep Freeze) so I guess it could work. We will test it out later

Also I'm not sure about Solo ToC with that bar especially looking at the more health update and the split attributes for Earthbind, I will test it myself see if it is possible with that build without pcons and possibly make adjustments.

The order for SW spiker was made up before we put Fragility in there, seeing as how both Crystals are armor-ignoring and remove the conditions put on by SW which would make cleanup a bit harder. Now that we use Fragility though it makes much more sense to just SW->Aftershock->Crystals.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchiez

Also I'm not sure about Solo ToC with that bar especially looking at the more health update and the split attributes for Earthbind, I will test it myself see if it is possible with that build without pcons and possibly make adjustments.

Solo ToC is near impossible with that build, Abyssals are just too tough to get down. I've messed around a bit with the builds and made it easier for the rit to Solo ToC, also making it possible for all the 3 spikers to move along and spike Battlefield instead of 1 spiker staying behind helping the rit.

Vampire of Bone · Jan 10, 2012, 02:32 PM // 14:32

You don't necessarily need a rit to solo toc, all the sos is really doing is providing Earthbind and Edge of Extinction. EoE could be moved to a spiker instead of fomf (if you are just running this in guild then using res scrolls shouldn't be a problem).

This would let you take anything you liked instead of the rit to do toc as long as they were /rt. Only thing you might lose is a bit of clean up though your builds look as if they wouldn't/shouldnt have a problem with cleaning anything leftover.

Ulfur Dreksbane · Jan 10, 2012, 04:52 PM // 16:52

My idea for a eleway fowsc has the following builds:

E1 + E2

E3

MT is standard, but with wisdom
T1 Regular
T2 Regular
EoE with Earthbind (Probably solo ToC just cause)

It's pretty straight forward. SB spikers cast precast mimicry on eachother ---> Channeling --> IAU ---> Intensity ---> EE ---> Spam spike skills on nearby targets (exact target doesnt matter)

The SW spiker precasts, hops in, casts Tenai's first for damage, then SW for main spike+conditions, whirlwind for 3 second KD and then aftershock.

EoE maintains Earthbind in range.

Dutchiez · Jan 10, 2012, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Newest builds, spikes are awesome, Solo ToC=np without any pcons (maybe mysterious summon stone or something along those lines for the ppl who aren't that good at it).

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulfur Dreksbane

My idea for a eleway fowsc has the following builds:

E1 + E2
http://i.imgur.com/ci6NK.png

E3
http://i.imgur.com/Vlm1w.png

MT is standard, but with wisdom
T1 Regular
T2 Regular
EoE with Earthbind (Probably solo ToC just cause)

It's pretty straight forward. SB spikers cast precast mimicry on eachother ---> Channeling --> IAU ---> Intensity ---> EE ---> Spam spike skills on nearby targets (exact target doesnt matter)

The SW spiker precasts, hops in, casts Tenai's first for damage, then SW for main spike+conditions, whirlwind for 3 second KD and then aftershock.

EoE maintains Earthbind in range.

Builds look good, I'm just not a fan of Arcane Mimicry (except for copying something you can keep for a long time and don't need very often e.g. UA), because of it's long cast time, short duration, long recharge time and high energy cost. You do get a double elite though which always helps.

I do like Whirlwind, I thought about using it myself initially too but you will have to divide your attributes between Earth Magic, Air Magic, Inspiration Magic and Energy Storage (you are gonna like that Energy in Forge with Shatter Enchantment).

EDIT: Btw you said you were using 3 spikers + MT,T1,T2 and EoE which leaves you at 7 players, I hope you were planning on using a T3? Because Forest is a bitch with these builds especially Worms.

Ulfur Dreksbane · Jan 10, 2012, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchiez

Builds look good, I'm just not a fan of Arcane Mimicry (except for copying something you can keep for a long time and don't need very often e.g. UA), because of it's long cast time, short duration, long recharge time and high energy cost. You do get a double elite though which always helps.

I do like Whirlwind, I thought about using it myself initially too but you will have to divide your attributes between Earth Magic, Air Magic, Inspiration Magic and Energy Storage (you are gonna like that Energy in Forge with Shatter Enchantment).

EDIT: Btw you said you were using 3 spikers + MT,T1,T2 and EoE which leaves you at 7 players, I hope you were planning on using a T3? Because Forest is a bitch with these builds especially Worms.

I just tested it. It went quite well. Arcane Mimicry is fine for this since you only need the duration to last a few seconds for the spike. When doing 360 it's not fantastic because it only lasts 1 or 2 groups, but 3x spikers still takes care of it.

The whirlwind is fine since I mainly use it to initiate the 3 second knockdown and activating the extra damage from aftershock. I haven't had any energy problems so far (and I was playing the less energy efficient shockwave build).

Oh yeah I forgot the 1 member. It can either be T3 or UA. We ran with a UA, but a T3 would work just as well. And yeah, wurms were a bit of a pain, but nothing horrifying.

WarcryOfTruth · Jan 10, 2012, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Not to sound dumb, but if I recall, doesn't Intensity require a targeted spell in order to do its damage? Looking at those Shockwave bars above, all of those damage spells are PBAoE. I could be wrong about how Intensity works, but I always thought it needed a target.

Maurice · Jan 10, 2012, 06:34 PM // 18:34

sorry pal, you are wrong. Tested it, and works like a charm.

WarcryOfTruth · Jan 10, 2012, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

sorry pal, you are wrong. Tested it, and works like a charm.

Well that's good then =)

I just went by how the skill is worded, when using Shockwave, there is no target so then how can "other nearby targets" from the spell take the damage? That's my point, the wording for Intensity isn't very good. If 10 foes are balled on you, and you use Shockwave + Intensity, which 9 of the foes take Intensity's damage? That's what i mean, at least for skills like Meteor Shower, Searing Heat, Teinei's Heat, etc, there is a specific target. I don't mind being wrong here, it's just that seeing that Intensity can trigger on spells without targets makes the skill description for it very misleading.